Curse

makosi · Sep 30, 2009, 06:15 PM // 18:15

So long as they don't picket my Guild Hall, tell me I'm going to Hell, preach biblical passages and scaremonger me with the rapture, I don't mind at all.

In other words, I'll keep myself to myself and you keep yourself to yourself. Everyone will be happy that way, I assume.

Painbringer · Sep 30, 2009, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Does walking by a temple or church bother you?

Seriously as long as they are not bothering me then they dont bother me. It is up to the player to make there decission. Be it christian jewish etc.. its a choice. So spam away to join your guild but don't tell me the world is ending otherwise I will turn the local chat off (much easier to deal with in the pixal world... huh)

KZaske · Sep 30, 2009, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beta Sprite

Are you offended by or do you object to guilds that are started around religions?

No, as long as they do not force the religion on others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beta Sprite

What do you think about guilds that follow moral teachings (no profanity, be respectable, etc.) without outright declaring themselves part of a religion? (This is how my current guild is. We're mostly Christians, but we don't really advertise it)

My guild has rules in place to inforce very simular actions. I expect my members to act like civilized people; polite, curtious, well mannered and to help others when they can. This is a game, I don't expect my members to be online every day or to farm faction unless they want/need to. As a side note; I learned not to advertise, the quality of player's one gets is normally very low.

Targren · Sep 30, 2009, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilderness

While I find the notion of organised religion fascinatingly terrifying, people are free to include/exclude whoever they wish from their guilds or any social networks.

You think so? Try to recruit-spam in Kamadan for your "straight, white-only, no girls allowed" guild. The /report function would explode.[0]

They're apparently called "Double Standards" because they're twice as good.

[0] To head off the flames: my guild has none of these requirements. I'm not speaking from experience. My point will be clear even if you don't take it 100% literally.

Beta Sprite · Sep 30, 2009, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

It seems to me that people who have to seek out a religiously themed guild in this game have some issues. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there's fundamentally anything wrong with a religiously themed guild, but it is at least a bit discriminatory.

I'm not really sure what you mean by this. If you know a demographic that you fit in, and you're looking for that environment, isn't it normal to put up some kind of notification so that they can get together?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

The OP asserts that when he see "Christian Guild" he means one in which there is no profanity, a general moral standard and respectful behavior towards guild mates. To that, I say the following, and this is addressed to anyone with a similar believe: Pull your head out of your ass. Its time people of ALL faiths started realizing that the moral standards of real world, modern society are not limited to your personal believe system. None of the values listed are even remotely limited to a particular religion nor are they limited to people following religions in general.

You're right, all religious and non-religious people should get along and figure out how to co-exist, but that isn't how things are, and there's too much disagreement on what is right and what is wrong. If a player accidentally drops a stack of ectos on the floor, and someone nabs it, did they pick it up to make sure it got back to the original player, or is it 'haha, you dropped these and now they're mine'? Then, does the rest of the guild laugh at you, too, for being foolish? (I didn't make this up. The worst case here was written up on the forums, by the person who picked up the ectos. It was split about 50/50 on whether they were in the wrong or not)
Maybe I should 'pull my head out', but I can't bring myself to trust general society.

In relation to guilds, I can't join just any guild and expect the standards I'm looking for to be there. The notion that the guild is Christian gives me an indication that it probably has the attitude and environment that I'm looking for. Granted, it's not a guarantee, but at least it's a direction for me to look in.

I have found a few normal guilds that were good for me, but I don't recall knowing anything like that from their advertising. It took a few days after I got into the guild before I found out whether things were really what I was looking for or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

With that in mind, is a guild recruiting ONLY Christian members fundamentally any different from a guild recruiting ONLY white members? Both ideas are predicated around the view that a certain classification of individuals, religion or race in this case, insures certain desirable qualities (or from a different perspective, eliminate certain undesirable qualities) which I have to say is a really ignorant and insecure point of view.

Christianity is a choice, and probably affects how you handle situations and people (I'd hope so, anyway). Skin color is not a choice, and dictates nothing about you. The discrimination would be different, but... well, actually, I agree with you. I don't think that only Christians should be allowed in a guild. Given that, it shouldn't be advertised as such, and instead advertised as a 'no profanity, helpful' guild.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

I also believe its quite unhealthy to only socialize with people of similar belief systems as yourself... it only serves to encourage people to focus on their differences rather than their similarities, and thus serves a divisive function.

I agree. That's partially why I made this thread. I want to hear what other people think, and you are giving me quite a bit to think about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

That being said, there's really nothing wrong with asking for guild members to be respectful, non-profane and to follow the general standards of modern society (which includes not stealing/scamming etc). Those standards exist for the good of society inside the game or outside the game. In my guild the topic of religion basically never comes up. If it did I doubt any of us would seriously care what religion the others people happen to be (if any). What matters is that people get along, have fun and don't make the game experience less fun for others.

That sounds like a nice guild to be in. Although, if someone was actually looking for support in relation to their beliefs, they would need a religious connection somewhere.

As I typed that last sentence, I realized that it wouldn't necessarily make sense to someone who doesn't follow a religion, but there is a lot of emotional support available from a religion's teachings. In the same way that some people find comfort in a friend or a psychiatrist, there can be relief by talking about problems through your religious connections, too.

Sure, it wouldn't be a guild for the sole purpose of playing the game, but is that a bad thing? In that case, why wouldn't you make a guild that connects those people? (Sorry, I didn't mean to end on another question, but it just kind of came in my train of thought.)

Reverend Dr · Sep 30, 2009, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Attention girl gamers! You're invited!

Despite persistent rumors to the contrary, girls do, in fact, exist on the internet, and play games - including Guild Wars. It does still seem to be hard for folks to accept, and sometimes it can be tiresome being the only girl on the team with seven guys, some of whom don't even believe that actual girls play this game.

To celebrate girl gamers and create a space for us just to have a good time playing together, Girl Power guild is sponsoring a weekly all girl gamer event, "Girl Power Hour!" The first one will be held this Sunday, February 25th.

Much like the weekly all-mesmer or all-beastmaster Zoo Crew events that you may have heard of, Girl Power Hour will meet at a set place and time each weekend. From there, we'll form up teams and head out to do something fun together - Clear Tomb of Primeval Kings? Sorrows Furnace quests? Domain of Anguish questing? The Deep? Urgoz? Fissure of Woe? Underworld? Get Master's reward for missions on the upcoming "hard mode?" All of those and more, eventually.

Our first event will be to find Galrath, and put an end to his villainy. We will meet in what will be our meeting place every weekend, the Temple of the Ages, International District 1, at what will be our meeting time every weekend, 1:00 PM Eastern Time (10:00 AM Pacific, 6:00 PM GMT). Girls only, please. Of course, there's no way to check the player behind the avatar, but boys discovered hiding behind female characters will be mocked mercilessly.

What: Girl Power Hour - Girls Pwning Galrath

Where: Temple of the Ages, International District 1

When: Sunday, February 25, 1:00 PM Eastern, 10:00 AM Pacific, 6:00 PM GMT

Who: Girl Gamers

Why: Because girls kick butt!

Winterclaw · Sep 30, 2009, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Christian guilds are fine with me. Others wouldn't bother me depending on their religion and religious percepts (ie no cults that advocate suicide-bombings or suicide-anything).

Beta, what you saw was something very popular among the American left: it's okay for them to be vilely discriminatory against Christianity or anything else that is traditionally an American value for that matter.

Reformed · Sep 30, 2009, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

With that in mind, is a guild recruiting ONLY Christian members fundamentally any different from a guild recruiting ONLY white members?

This was never about race and even if it were it would be impossible to enforce in a game like GuildWars. Would you have your members upload photos of themselves? How would you prove it was them, a notary?

Don't draw this comparison...just don't, you had to know it was terribad and going for the knee-jerk immediately after you typed it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Beta, what you saw was something very popular among the American left: it's okay for them to be vilely discriminatory against Christianity or anything else that is traditionally an American value for that matter.

Well said.

Ġ ō Đ¹ · Sep 30, 2009, 06:47 PM // 18:47

no it doesnt bother me just everytime i see them recruiting gives me a good laugh and i go on my way

Red Apple · Sep 30, 2009, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beta Sprite

Here are my questions, if you care to answer them. I am interested in all responses:
Are you offended by or do you object to guilds that are started around religions?
What do you think about guilds that follow moral teachings (no profanity, be respectable, etc.) without outright declaring themselves part of a religion? (This is how my current guild is. We're mostly Christians, but we don't really advertise it)

I dislike the propaganda of Christian/[Insert Religion] Guilds, mostly because I think the mixing of reality to a fantasy game is not a good match.
Online people tend to be more mean due to the anonymity that is acquired by playing, calling names is easier and a lot of argue is guaranteed, most of it senseless arguments which IMO have nothing to do with the game at all (ergo why to bring reality topics on a place where people only want to have fun, mostly, and I speak for me).

Even though, intolerance is inexcusable and I agree: people must have a degree of freedom on what kind of game play they would like to have.
I would still prefer that guilds weren't allowed to label themselves as any kind of religion, preferring people to be forced into looking for the correct guild by testing and retrying.

Being Christian, Muslism, Catholic or Budist does not turn people into "good" nor anything like it, and so it is not necessary ingame. Bad presumptions, bad consequences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~ Dan ~

This thread is silly.

Useless comment is useless.

Carn Angmar · Sep 30, 2009, 06:58 PM // 18:58

I'm won't say it's offensive, but it definately is biased. Since when do you have to be Christian to be a decent human being? At what point in time did those two equate each other? Most 'christians' I know are racist, mean, selfish people who use propaganda and dogma to threaten people who aren't part of their club. If you want a guild to have members that fit a certain criteria such as what you described, then say so and leave religion out of it.

Religion is an exclusivity club and it doesn't matter which religion it is.

Dawgboy · Sep 30, 2009, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Have whatever kind of guild you want. No skin off my nuts.

The only problem I have is when someone's in general chat spewing their religious/lifestyle crap.
Put 'em in the same guild and then they can use guild chat to talk nonsense to each other.

Zahr Dalsk · Sep 30, 2009, 07:04 PM // 19:04

It's not offensive, but I do feel a sort of condescending pity for the basement-dwelling failures who make (and/or join) a "christian guild."

Mylina · Sep 30, 2009, 07:04 PM // 19:04

As long as people tell me what to do (like the other day at work), it's ok with me. Just don't ever tell people to what to do, never.

DreamRunner · Sep 30, 2009, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

The OP asserts that when he see "Christian Guild" he means one in which there is no profanity, a general moral standard and respectful behavior towards guild mates. To that, I say the following, and this is addressed to anyone with a similar believe: Pull your head out of your ass. Its time people of ALL faiths started realizing that the moral standards of real world, modern society are not limited to your personal believe system. None of the values listed are even remotely limited to a particular religion nor are they limited to people following religions in general.

What you are saying is far too general and incredibly wrong. You do realize when you are talking about 'all faiths', that religion and morals vary between a cultural societies? For instance, western society is based on a judo-christian morally based system - it has just evolved over time with many individuals changing it into what it is today. Our own understanding and thought is from a western social understanding of ethics and morals which are governed by a very Judo-Christian set based concepts, of either compassion, goodness and evil. But it is wrong to group all religions, as if they all share the same moral code of conduct.

But lets take what you said "a general moral standard and respectful behavior" I guess you mean treat people with human dignity? Even Human dignity was a concept brought by western civilization from mainly Judo-Christian monotheism and Graeco-Roman world understanding (see Milton Lewis and Max Weber).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

With that in mind, is a guild recruiting ONLY Christian members fundamentally any different from a guild recruiting ONLY white members?

Uhm, yes. Christianity is based around faith and spirituality. Christianity also doesn't limit people towards a certain ethnic demographic - if that were the case, you wouldn't have Christians across the whole world, in different parts of every country!

To the OP: There is nothing wrong in recruiting people who have similar interests to you or to your fellow guilds mates.

Captain Bulldozer · Sep 30, 2009, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beta Sprite

I'm not really sure what you mean by this. If you know a demographic that you fit in, and you're looking for that environment, isn't it normal to put up some kind of notification so that they can get together?

I can say with a lot of certainty that the "Christian" Demogrphic is about as widely varied as the general population. You're assuming the being Christian insures certain properties, which really and truly is not the case. How many convicted murders are Christian? How many rapists? In the US, for example, the majority of people call themselves Christian, and yet from that majority still comes most of the violent criminals. Sure, those people may not truly be following the tenants of Christianity, but isn't that the point? People give themselves (and others) labels most of the time without truly knowing what those labels mean. As an example, how many people would describe Stalin as a Communist? Or Obama as a socialist? Or Bin Laden as a Muslim? Yet, in none of these examples does the label fit the individual. So no, seeking the Christian demographic doesn't make sense to me any more than seeking the "white only" demographic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beta Sprite

You're right, all religious and non-religious people should get along and figure out how to co-exist, but that isn't how things are, and there's too much disagreement on what is right and what is wrong. If a player accidentally drops a stack of ectos on the floor, and someone nabs it, did they pick it up to make sure it got back to the original player, or is it 'haha, you dropped these and now they're mine'? Then, does the rest of the guild laugh at you, too, for being foolish? (I didn't make this up. The worst case here was written up on the forums, by the person who picked up the ectos. It was split about 50/50 on whether they were in the wrong or not)
Maybe I should 'pull my head out', but I can't bring myself to trust general society.

I don't think its possible to accidentally drop a stack of anything. That being said, I think not stealing generally includes not picking up stuff where its clear the person who dropped it is going to want it (such as a stack of ectos, a rare weapon or minipet, etc.). In such cases, the "right" and mature thing to do is to ask before picking it up if it was dropped just to show off. Again, there is nothing Christian one way or another with such behavior.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beta Sprite

In relation to guilds, I can't join just any guild and expect the standards I'm looking for to be there. The notion that the guild is Christian gives me an indication that it probably has the attitude and environment that I'm looking for. Granted, it's not a guarantee, but at least it's a direction for me to look in.

So is looking for a guild of friendly, helpful people who live in your time zone. Both choices are discriminatory, but one makes more sense for practical reasons if you ask me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beta Sprite

Christianity is a choice, and probably affects how you handle situations and people (I'd hope so, anyway). Skin color is not a choice, and dictates nothing about you. The discrimination would be different, but... well, actually, I agree with you. I don't think that only Christians should be allowed in a guild. Given that, it shouldn't be advertised as such, and instead advertised as a 'no profanity, helpful' guild.

Now you're seeing my point I think. Even though people may call themselves Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc. religious and moral beliefs are really individualistic, depending on the person in question. To lump all people of a certain faith together is a gross over simplification, and only really serves to further divide humanity with artificiality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beta Sprite

I agree. That's partially why I made this thread. I want to hear what other people think, and you are giving me quite a bit to think about.

Glad to hear it. If only more people were open to frank, reasonable discussions in the world without falling into the trap of labeling groups, we might make some real progress.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beta Sprite

That sounds like a nice guild to be in. Although, if someone was actually looking for support in relation to their beliefs, they would need a religious connection somewhere.

As I typed that last sentence, I realized that it wouldn't necessarily make sense to someone who doesn't follow a religion, but there is a lot of emotional support available from a religion's teachings. In the same way that some people find comfort in a friend or a psychiatrist, there can be relief by talking about problems through your religious connections, too.

Sounds like a need which would be better met elsewhere. Unless I'm mistaken, Church would seem to be the better place to go for such a need. Of course, there's absolutely no reason why a non-christian couldn't be helpful in providing moral direction or emotional support. Perhaps they could even offer good spiritual guidance. One need not be a Christian to understand and interpret the teachings of Christianity in a helpful way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beta Sprite

Sure, it wouldn't be a guild for the sole purpose of playing the game, but is that a bad thing? In that case, why wouldn't you make a guild that connects those people? (Sorry, I didn't mean to end on another question, but it just kind of came in my train of thought.)

Is it a bad thing if people in the game help you out with real life issues from time to time? Not at all. But let's all remember that this is supposed to be a game, not a church, nor a bible study, nor a political activist group meeting place, nor a psychotherapy office. Even though it may serve as one or all of those things from time to time, each of them has a place in the real world better suited to it. If you're logging in to the game for a reason other than actually playing it, you're really just wasting server space.

AsyaMordina · Sep 30, 2009, 07:11 PM // 19:11

No different to me than:
* Gay/Lesbian based
* Foreign based (e.g. Aussie, Germany, Mexican)
* Alcohol preference based
* Age based (18+, 30+, 50+)
* Gender based
* Timezone based
* PvE vs PvP based
* HA vs GvG based
* Occupation based (USMC)

People like to play with people of similar interests.

The only recruitements I find offensive are those advertising/advocating hatred activities.

I originally had 'illegal activities' instead of hatred activities, but murdering and killing are part of the game and in most contries those activities are illegal.

El Presidente · Sep 30, 2009, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beta Sprite

Here are my questions, if you care to answer them. I am interested in all responses:
Are you offended by or do you object to guilds that are started around religions?
What do you think about guilds that follow moral teachings (no profanity, be respectable, etc.) without outright declaring themselves part of a religion? (This is how my current guild is. We're mostly Christians, but we don't really advertise it)

1 ~ No offense take by them. I find it no different than role-playing guilds, etc. To each his/her own...

2 ~ Again, no different than any guild having certain requirements, whether it's PvE, PvP, PvX, age, gender, location, etc.

Captain Bulldozer · Sep 30, 2009, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

This was never about race and even if it were it would be impossible to enforce in a game like GuildWars. Would you have your members upload photos of themselves? How would you prove it was them, a notary?

Don't draw this comparison...just don't, you had to know it was terribad and going for the knee-jerk immediately after you typed it.

You miss the point. Its not about race, nor is it about religion. The OP is looking for certain qualities in a guild, qualities which exist in people of all faiths, races, ethnic groups, etc. Certainly you couldn't verify that all your members are white, but you also can't verify that people are Christian or not. Even if a person believes they are [insert religion], that doesn't insure that they follow the teachings of [insert same religion].

Rushin Roulette · Sep 30, 2009, 07:27 PM // 19:27

I don't have a problem with any guild type as long as they dont try to tell me how I should live. I believe I can manage to figure out that myself thank you very much.

However, I'm wondering how anyone can actually claim to be in a Christian guild in GW of all games....
"Thou shalt not kill" seems a bit difficult to follow The only option they would have to get out of that problem would be to play a Healing or prot monk (but that would of course be blasphemy as Monks shouldn't do that sort of thing in churches... the various touch skills come prominently to mind) or a Healer Ritualist (seems like necromancy as well seeing as they call the ghosts of dead people... not to mention dropping cremated remains of corpses everywhere they go).